Posts by Disillusioned JW

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Disillusioned JW

The Bible in Living English (by Byington; copyright 1972 by the WT) in Hebrews 1:8 says "... God is your throne for ever and ever ..." and at Psalms 45:6 it says "God is your throne forever and evermore ...".

The Bible; A New Translation (by Moffatt; copyright 1935) in Hebrews 1:8 says "... God is thy throne for ever and ever ...". Oddly at Psalms 45:6 it doesn't use the word "God", but uses the phrase "shall stand" instead.. In that verse it says "Your throne shall stand for ever more ..." The reason for such could be the scholarly conjecture (#3) mentioned in the translators' note to Hebrews 1:8 in the Fifth Edition of the The New Testament In Modern Speech (by Weymouth and "Newly Revised By James Alexander Robertson") in reference to Psalms 45:6. That NT by Weymouth says the conjecture says the following.

"(3) A corrupt Hebrew text, ' Yahweh ' (God), being a mistake for the almost identical Hebrew word meaning ' shall be '--' Thy throne shall be for ever and ever.' This conjecture is widely adopted, but the writer of the Epistle, in applying the wors of the psalm to the Son, would not feel the difficulty ; and ' Thy throne, O God ' may stand."

Weymouth's NT says conjectures #1 through #2 say the following.

"(1) ' Thy throne is the throne of God ' (so. R.V. mg. in the Psalm).

(2) Thy throne is God for ever and ever.' "

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Disillusioned JW

On page 23 of this topic Vanderhoven7 quotes the 1995 NASB translation of Hebrews 1:8-12 of which verse 8 says in part "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever". On the same page of the topic thread I also made a comment about Hebrews 1:8. In this post I am documenting scholarly support of the NWT translation of "God is your throne" for part of verse 8.

The translators' note for Hebrews 1:8 in the 1901 ASV says "Or, Thy throne is God for &c.". The translators' note for Hebrews 1:8 in the RSV (in both the First Edition of the NT [copyright 1946] and in the Second Edition of the NT [copyright 1971]) says Or, God is thy throne". The translators' note for Hebrews 1:8 in the NRSV (copyright 1989) says Or, God is your throne". The translation of Hebrews 1:8 in The Twentieth Century New Testament ... Revised Edition (copyright 1904) says "... God is thy throne for ever and ever ...". The Complete Bible: An American Translation (of which the NT was translated by Edgar J. Goodspeed; copyright 1939) translates Hebrews 1:8 as "... God is your throne forever and ever ...".

34

1985 and baptism...I wish I had read this before today

by enoughisenough in

i am posting a link as to being legally bound to jw rules at time of baptism.

i only did a quick skim, but what i gathered is interesting, and what it says about 1985 may be of use to some hoping to just fade and not be bothered.

in 1985, the questions were changed at baptism for legal purposes so they could have causation to defend themselves should you decide to sue for whatever reason.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks Earnest for the update of what the Organized book says.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: In my prior post where I said "Mark 18:30" I should have said "Luke 18:30".

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

The account at Mark 10:30 (NASB Updated) does say "will receive a hundred times more now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms ... and in the age to come, eternal life" but I don't see evidence of that literally happening now for people. As a result I don't believe it. Yes some people get many more friends and quasi family members when they become an evangelical Christian and join a mainstream Christian congregation (and even some people purportedly received more friends when they become a JW) and you received a much better life, but I don't believe any of them received a hundred times more houses and farms (or a 100 times other possessions after selling all of their possessions and giving away all of the proceeds to the poor). It is good though that you are much happier now.

Furthermore, Matthew 19:28-29 does not say that any of the material blessings or new family members will come in the current age. Verse 28 (NASB Updated) says "in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne" the 12 apostles (thus apparently including Judas, according to this verse) "shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." That obviously hasn't happened, and if it hypothetically happens it will be in the future (but I no longer believe it ever will happen). Verse 29 doesn't say "a hundred times more" but makes a much more modest claim of "many times as much" and it does not say when that will be be, but the context of 28 gives the impression that Jesus was claiming it will be in the future, "in the regeneration".

The account of Matthew was written later than that of Mark and after Christians noticed that the kingdom hadn't come yet, even though Jerusalem had been destroyed in 70 CE.

Luke 18:29-30 combines elements of Matthew 19:28-29 and Mark 10:29-30 and uses some wording not found in Matthew and Mark, but admittedly Mark 18:30 does say (in the NASB Updated) "at this time and in the age to come, eternal life." By the way Luke 18:29-30 makes it sounds like those who lost their wife "for the sake of the kingdom of God" (1984 NWT) will receive many times more wives "in this period of time" if they become a true follower of Christ; very interesting!

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: 3.25 hours prior to me submitting this post I submitted a post in which the first sentence of the second paragraph is poorly worded. That post is delayed in posting (as of the time of me submitting this post). After it posts and after this post (which is also delayed in posting) posts, note that the problematic sentence should say the following. "Yes after mentioning the account about the rich man in which the three gospels (which I mentioned in my earlier post) say that Jesus said that people should give all of their belongings away and follow Christ, Jesus later says the people will be richly rewarded in heaven, but even when I was a Christian and believed Christ would return I didn't know when Christ would return and when the kingdom would be established on (or over) the Earth." Further note that of course since about 12 years (when I stopped believing in God and a heavenly Christ) I have been certain Jesus never went to heaven and that he thus can't return to Earth and that he won't rule as king on (or over) the Earth.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze I have no regret for saying the words "I" and "my" in my prior post. Since you say I was in error I ask you the following. "Have you sold all of your material belongings (including all the assets you saved up for retirement) and and given away all of the proceeds of such to the poor?" Please tell me your answer to that question.

Yes after mentioning the account about the rich man the three gospels (which I mentioned in my earlier post) say that people give people give it all away and follow Christ, they will be richly rewarded in heaven, but even when I was a Christian and believed Christ would return I didn't know when Christ would return and when the kingdom would be established on (or over) the Earth. Many Christians think similarly and in the meantime we need to take care of ourselves if we don't want to be homeless. Are you homeless? The NT says Jesus said he had no place to rest his head.

Furthermore, what if what the Bible says about the kingdom is false? Granted you are convinced of what the Bible says but many Christians are not completely certain that they will receive eternal life in the kingdom of Christ and that God will take care of their needs if they give away all of their possession, just as many Christians don't believe God answers their prayers.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, what is recorded at Luke 14:33 as a saying attributed to Jesus is a very hard saying to emotionally accept (at least for me). It is one of the sayings attributed to Jesus which I consider to be disturbing, like the rich Jewish man (who sincerely claimed to keep all of the laws of the Torah) being told by Jesus to give away all of his belongings to the poor (If the rich man wanted to be "perfect" and inherit "everlasting life") [Mark 10:17-25; Matthew 19:16-24; Luke 18:18-26]. I don't want to give up all of the things I own. I also don't want to give up my living body and I don't want to give up my life either.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Hi carla. It is OK to me that you are convinced that JWs are not Christians.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

carla, numerous dictionaries and encyclopedias in their entry about Jehovah's Witnesses say they are a Christian sect (or a Christian denomination or a Christian group), and thus say the religion is Christian. A number scholars even say the ancient Gnostics were Christians.

A number of surveys of religion, including specifically of Christianity, also classify Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians. For example, https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/ says "Jehovah’s Witnesses identify as Christians, but their beliefs are different from other Christians in some ways." Notice it didn't say they different "from Christians', but rather "from other Christians", thus saying they are Christians. The article also says "Like many other highly religious Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to take conservative positions on social issues."

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2011/12/19/global-christianity-exec/ says "Other Christians, such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, make up the remaining 1% of the global Christian population."

The following is a clarification of what I said in a prior post regarding my words of "'in regards to what the WT has lyingly said of so-called apostates (that all of them lie about the WT), I didn't know such was the case until years after I became baptized." By that I meant that I didn't know (until many years after my baptism) that the WT was lying when it said that all apostates (that which the WT calls apostates of the JW religion) lie about the WT. I learned years after my baptism that many apostates in their attacks of the WT's teachings accurately quote WT literature (without misrepresenting the quotes), instead of lying about the WT.